WALTHAM FOREST: Dog stadium sold
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| Walthamstow Stadium now sold for redevelopment |
THE world-famous Walthamstow Stadium has been sold for development.
The directors have agreed the sale of the dog track opened in the 1930s to a development consortium led by Yoo Capital and K W Linfoot plc.
Contracts have been exchanged and completion is expected on or before September 1. Racing will continue until the middle of August.
In a statement, director Charles Chandler said: "Since the abolition of General Betting Duty in 2001, with the consequent loss of the unique advantage of tax-free betting only on-course, greyhound punters have been able to bet tax-free off-course, and with betting offices and exchanges open throughout the evening to accommodate them, attendances and betting turnover on-course have declined dramatically.
"Walthamstow's totalisator turnover alone has fallen by some 35 per cent during the period.
"With all of the principle income streams in sharp decline, and general running costs rising relentlessly, the company's operations have become unsustainable."
Staff and trainers were notified today and a consultation period has begun.
Mr Chandler said: "It is hoped that all will find alternative positions after operations cease.
"From an animal welfare point of view, it is anticipated that most of the greyhounds currently racing at the Stadium will be accommodated at other racecourses.
"If, however, certain owners choose to retire their greyhounds, every effort will be made to support them in finding suitable homes."
Rumours that the stadium would be sold have been rife for several years, but have been stoutly denied by the family.
The stadium in Chingford Road, Chingford, was founded in 1933 by William Chandler and is known across the globe. It is widely regarded as one of Waltham Forest's few attractions for tourists as well as for east Londoners.
Last year a bid to get the front range of the stadium and its historic Tote board listed by English Heritage finally succeeded.
2:36pm Saturday 17th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Walthamster, E17 on 2:57pm Sat 17 May 08
Sad news. Another of Walthamstow's few remaining landmarks bites the dust. We've already lost our legendary cinema. William Morris gallery is closed most of the time. The council has cut what used to be the longest daily market in Europe to a fraction of its size. Now the dogs are to go.
Any bets on when they'll drain Walthamstow marshes and build egg-box flats there?
Sad news. Another of Walthamstow's few remaining landmarks bites the dust. We've already lost our legendary cinema. William Morris gallery is closed most of the time. The council has cut what used to be the longest daily market in Europe to a fraction of its size. Now the dogs are to go.
Any bets on when they'll drain Walthamstow marshes and build egg-box flats there?
Posted by: Eddy on 3:33pm Sat 17 May 08
As if we all didn't know that was going to happen. The owners of the the stadium were lying from the very beginning.
It was obvious, from the very first rumour, that is what the 'Chandlers' intended to do.
I Just hope people remember the lies they told to the Guardian and the people of Walthamstow.
Shame on them for not telling the truth in the very beginning.
As if we all didn't know that was going to happen. The owners of the the stadium were lying from the very beginning.
It was obvious, from the very first rumour, that is what the 'Chandlers' intended to do.
I Just hope people remember the lies they told to the Guardian and the people of Walthamstow.
Shame on them for not telling the truth in the very beginning.
Posted by: john, essex on 3:34pm Sat 17 May 08
yes what a sad lose.i was told they was going to build flats for the 2012 games.it does not matter about the staff and the rest of the people who will no longer have a job.
yes what a sad lose.i was told they was going to build flats for the 2012 games.it does not matter about the staff and the rest of the people who will no longer have a job.
Posted by: David Biller, Walthamstow on 3:45pm Sat 17 May 08
Disgraceful !
A total insult to the people of Walthamstow.
Disgraceful !
A total insult to the people of Walthamstow.
Posted by: Not Mr Khalid on 3:49pm Sat 17 May 08
What do the Chandlers care. They took the money and run.
What do the Chandlers care. They took the money and run.
Posted by: Mohammed, Walthamstow on 4:27pm Sat 17 May 08
More flats I see. What happened to the Council's policy on building and providing better homes for the family.
More flats I see. What happened to the Council's policy on building and providing better homes for the family.
Posted by: keith, The Bell on 5:32pm Sat 17 May 08
The Totaliser Board listed by E.H. you say? What good has that done the old Granda Cinema in Hoe Street - and that's a Grade 2* listing higher rating than the stadium tote. That's been left to fall to bits as anyone can see when you walk under the front canopy - what must it be like inside.
Not that that has had any effect with the so called LBWF Conservation Officer who has had over 25 years in the post. He and this council's culture cabinet member are a complete disgrace, you cannot blame the Chandler family for making a good return on a site they have kept running through good times, and bad since 1931.
people should start apportioning blame upon the people who have (well paid) salaried jobs in council for which they are morally obliged to preserve buildings of architectural importance in our lifetime. If they can NOT, or WILL NOT, they should do the decent thing and resign in shame.
The Totaliser Board listed by E.H. you say? What good has that done the old Granda Cinema in Hoe Street - and that's a Grade 2* listing higher rating than the stadium tote. That's been left to fall to bits as anyone can see when you walk under the front canopy - what must it be like inside.
Not that that has had any effect with the so called LBWF Conservation Officer who has had over 25 years in the post. He and this council's culture cabinet member are a complete disgrace, you cannot blame the Chandler family for making a good return on a site they have kept running through good times, and bad since 1931.
people should start apportioning blame upon the people who have (well paid) salaried jobs in council for which they are morally obliged to preserve buildings of architectural importance in our lifetime. If they can NOT, or WILL NOT, they should do the decent thing and resign in shame.
Posted by: Tom, Chingford on 5:53pm Sat 17 May 08
Yes, another sign of the way this area is going down the pan.
Let's hope that the current 'temporary'closure of the public footpath alongside the stadium is not related to this proposed development. This Council is as keen to get rid of its green spaces as it is indifferent to its historic buildings and local culture.
Yes, another sign of the way this area is going down the pan.
Let's hope that the current 'temporary'closure of the public footpath alongside the stadium is not related to this proposed development. This Council is as keen to get rid of its green spaces as it is indifferent to its historic buildings and local culture.
Posted by: Ann Marie, E17 on 7:04pm Sat 17 May 08
I feel really sad about this, another local landmark is going to be turned into a housing development.
I've lived in the area for 12 years and been to the dogs a few times...it is a sad loss. The borough is slowly turning into a faceless development of new builds. It's such a shame.
I feel really sad about this, another local landmark is going to be turned into a housing development.
I've lived in the area for 12 years and been to the dogs a few times...it is a sad loss. The borough is slowly turning into a faceless development of new builds. It's such a shame.
Posted by: Jon, E17 on 8:52pm Sat 17 May 08
This is such a shame and another massive loss for Walthamstow!
This is such a shame and another massive loss for Walthamstow!
Posted by: Walthamster, E17 on 11:39pm Sat 17 May 08
If anyone's wondering what "Lenny" is talking about: the McGuffins are a group trying to save the Granada/EMD. This is damaging certain people's financial interests so they're running a smear campaign against the McGuffins, pretending the McGuffins are (for unexplained reasons) trying to destroy the cinema.
They add an irrelevant anti-McGuffin comment to every thread. That's all.
If anyone's wondering what "Lenny" is talking about: the McGuffins are a group trying to save the Granada/EMD. This is damaging certain people's financial interests so they're running a smear campaign against the McGuffins, pretending the McGuffins are (for unexplained reasons) trying to destroy the cinema.
They add an irrelevant anti-McGuffin comment to every thread. That's all.
Posted by: john, essex on 12:55pm Sun 18 May 08
i can asure people the dogs will be well looked after when the racing stops in mid august .
i can asure people the dogs will be well looked after when the racing stops in mid august .
Posted by: Eddy on 4:41pm Sun 18 May 08
@John in Essex...
Like everyone actually thought the dogs were going to be executed. Your post is pointless. it is the lies the Chandlers told that is the 'sore point'
@John in Essex...
Like everyone actually thought the dogs were going to be executed. Your post is pointless. it is the lies the Chandlers told that is the 'sore point'
Posted by: Edward, Woodford on 4:49pm Sun 18 May 08
The dogs are put down if suitable homes cannot be found. The make them into brushes. What a sad life the dogs have
The dogs are put down if suitable homes cannot be found. The make them into brushes. What a sad life the dogs have
Posted by: john, essex on 6:47pm Sun 18 May 08
[quote][bold]Eddy[/bold] wrote:
@John in Essex... Like everyone actually thought the dogs were going to be executed. Your post is pointless. it is the lies the Chandlers told that is the \'sore point\'[/quote] yes you will be suprised how many people think the dogs are just killed.there are 2 rehoming kennels up galley hill.the rehoming kennel only found out on thursday as well .
Eddy wrote:
@John in Essex... Like everyone actually thought the dogs were going to be executed. Your post is pointless. it is the lies the Chandlers told that is the \'sore point\'
yes you will be suprised how many people think the dogs are just killed.there are 2 rehoming kennels up galley hill.the rehoming kennel only found out on thursday as well .
Posted by: John Lussier, Jacksonville, Florida, USA on 8:08pm Sun 18 May 08
When my Missus and I were married in Walthamstow in September of 2004, we didn't have much money for a flash honeymoon. As she was from the local area and I was a Yank who just wanted to know my new bride's past better, I was hapy to spend a Saturday night at the Walthamstow Dog Track. It was super affordable, the stands were alive with families eating jacket potatoes with slaw or beans in them,and cheap fast grub.It may sound silly and over romantic but the atmosphere with the bookmakers at track side and the punters scrambling to the cages was carnival like and much the same as my Missus remebered from her youth. We got lucky that night and won big on a 14 to 1 shot dog that paid for our entire evening and a few quid left over. I'll miss the place and I've only been there once. Thanks for that experience and I hope that building some Bladerunner Tower Flats gets blocked by the good people of Walthamstow.
When my Missus and I were married in Walthamstow in September of 2004, we didn't have much money for a flash honeymoon. As she was from the local area and I was a Yank who just wanted to know my new bride's past better, I was hapy to spend a Saturday night at the Walthamstow Dog Track. It was super affordable, the stands were alive with families eating jacket potatoes with slaw or beans in them,and cheap fast grub.It may sound silly and over romantic but the atmosphere with the bookmakers at track side and the punters scrambling to the cages was carnival like and much the same as my Missus remebered from her youth. We got lucky that night and won big on a 14 to 1 shot dog that paid for our entire evening and a few quid left over. I'll miss the place and I've only been there once. Thanks for that experience and I hope that building some Bladerunner Tower Flats gets blocked by the good people of Walthamstow.
Posted by: Chingford United Netball Team, E4 on 8:57am Mon 19 May 08
I dont know why everyone is moaning.
Yes the Dogs is a great place and a great night out.
However everyone in the Chandler's position would do the same. They have worked hard and own this asset so if they want to sell then good luck to them.
Everyone heard the whispers of the possible sale for the past few years and there was nothing stopping the workers, trainers etc pooling funds and putting their own bid for the Stow on the table.
They did not, so stop moaning.
I dont know why everyone is moaning.
Yes the Dogs is a great place and a great night out.
However everyone in the Chandler's position would do the same. They have worked hard and own this asset so if they want to sell then good luck to them.
Everyone heard the whispers of the possible sale for the past few years and there was nothing stopping the workers, trainers etc pooling funds and putting their own bid for the Stow on the table.
They did not, so stop moaning.
Posted by: CG, Chingford on 9:57am Mon 19 May 08
Please oh please do not let the developers pull down the neon frontage and replace it with soulless drab boring ugly flats like they have done up Fulbourne road next door to the new frederick brenmer school.
lets at least have something beautiful for this little corner of chingford as a tribute to all those beautiful majestic dogs that graced the Stow over the years.
Please oh please do not let the developers pull down the neon frontage and replace it with soulless drab boring ugly flats like they have done up Fulbourne road next door to the new frederick brenmer school.
lets at least have something beautiful for this little corner of chingford as a tribute to all those beautiful majestic dogs that graced the Stow over the years.
Posted by: Chingford United Netball Club, E4 on 10:10am Mon 19 May 08
[quote][bold]CG[/bold] wrote:
Please oh please do not let the developers pull down the neon frontage and replace it with soulless drab boring ugly flats like they have done up Fulbourne road next door to the new frederick brenmer school. lets at least have something beautiful for this little corner of chingford as a tribute to all those beautiful majestic dogs that graced the Stow over the years.[/quote] If you read both Guardian Reports in full you will see that the frontage is listed so will not be knocked down.
CG wrote:
Please oh please do not let the developers pull down the neon frontage and replace it with soulless drab boring ugly flats like they have done up Fulbourne road next door to the new frederick brenmer school. lets at least have something beautiful for this little corner of chingford as a tribute to all those beautiful majestic dogs that graced the Stow over the years.
If you read both Guardian Reports in full you will see that the frontage is listed so will not be knocked down.
Posted by: RayJay, Walthamstow on 11:15am Mon 19 May 08
I think a lot of people are missing the point. This is a company that employs up to 400 staff who are now being made redundant. Some have worked for the stadium for over 60 years, some have the whole family working there. To these people it is not about the listed building or the rehousing of the dogs, although they are concerned about these as well. To these people it is a matter of survival. How are they going to pay their mortgages, feed and clothe the family etc. After all there are not many local employers left.
This is a human tragedy as well as a blow to the borough, but as normal people comment on how it affects them & ignore the people it really affects.
I think a lot of people are missing the point. This is a company that employs up to 400 staff who are now being made redundant. Some have worked for the stadium for over 60 years, some have the whole family working there. To these people it is not about the listed building or the rehousing of the dogs, although they are concerned about these as well. To these people it is a matter of survival. How are they going to pay their mortgages, feed and clothe the family etc. After all there are not many local employers left.
This is a human tragedy as well as a blow to the borough, but as normal people comment on how it affects them & ignore the people it really affects.
Posted by: Gary, e17 on 3:29pm Mon 19 May 08
The Chandlers made a business decision as they are entitled to do, they do not run a charity and even if they did could not run at a loss. Could something else be there to replace it that would create jobs and entertainment, ask the locals who might have something to say about it.
The Chandlers made a business decision as they are entitled to do, they do not run a charity and even if they did could not run at a loss. Could something else be there to replace it that would create jobs and entertainment, ask the locals who might have something to say about it.
Posted by: RayJay, Walthamstow on 4:49pm Mon 19 May 08
[quote][bold]Gary[/bold] wrote:
The Chandlers made a business decision as they are entitled to do, they do not run a charity and even if they did could not run at a loss. Could something else be there to replace it that would create jobs and entertainment, ask the locals who might have something to say about it.[/quote] Nice to see some people have a social conscience. As a company they have the right to pull out, as a borough we all suffer. Less council income from rates, more unemployment benefits & one less local amenity. Then 2 years of building development snarling up the Crooked Billet area. It is a shame that the socialist council doesn't seem to care about the borough or the local population otherwise the jobs & entertainment would already be in the borough. No wonder the borough is going down hill so rapidly.
Gary wrote:
The Chandlers made a business decision as they are entitled to do, they do not run a charity and even if they did could not run at a loss. Could something else be there to replace it that would create jobs and entertainment, ask the locals who might have something to say about it.
Nice to see some people have a social conscience. As a company they have the right to pull out, as a borough we all suffer. Less council income from rates, more unemployment benefits & one less local amenity. Then 2 years of building development snarling up the Crooked Billet area. It is a shame that the socialist council doesn't seem to care about the borough or the local population otherwise the jobs & entertainment would already be in the borough. No wonder the borough is going down hill so rapidly.
Posted by: Tom G, Walthamstow on 4:58pm Mon 19 May 08
Tragic but so predictable. This sort of thing is happening everywhere and no one in government or council seems to care. London's personality is being flattened, like the old cinema in Gants Hill, the closure of Walthamstow Cinema, the disposal of the Routmaster bus, red telephone boxes, the closure of 200 year old pubs to make way for housing, filling in the art deco lido's (Whipps Cross, Larkswood and Valentines Park all gone). Now it's the finest dog track in the country that's on it's way out. It seems that in the end we'll have plenty of housing, but who in their right mind would want to live here?
Tragic but so predictable. This sort of thing is happening everywhere and no one in government or council seems to care. London's personality is being flattened, like the old cinema in Gants Hill, the closure of Walthamstow Cinema, the disposal of the Routmaster bus, red telephone boxes, the closure of 200 year old pubs to make way for housing, filling in the art deco lido's (Whipps Cross, Larkswood and Valentines Park all gone). Now it's the finest dog track in the country that's on it's way out. It seems that in the end we'll have plenty of housing, but who in their right mind would want to live here?
Posted by: claire, essex on 9:31am Tue 20 May 08
I think the main concern is the welfare of the dogs, some of these trainers will be offered alternate tracks, but the majority will be left to the trainers and unfortunately these will therefore be destroyed. As someone who is involved in Greyhound Rescue and Homing, I am extremely concerned that this is going to be pushed under the carpet. Certain vets are being paid currently to put healthy dogs to sleep and this is what will happen.
Why cant the fat wallets, put at least one million out of their profit to providing a homing centre for these dogs? The current centres are full and we cannot accept any more dogs.
What is going to happen?
I think the main concern is the welfare of the dogs, some of these trainers will be offered alternate tracks, but the majority will be left to the trainers and unfortunately these will therefore be destroyed. As someone who is involved in Greyhound Rescue and Homing, I am extremely concerned that this is going to be pushed under the carpet. Certain vets are being paid currently to put healthy dogs to sleep and this is what will happen.
Why cant the fat wallets, put at least one million out of their profit to providing a homing centre for these dogs? The current centres are full and we cannot accept any more dogs.
What is going to happen?
Posted by: claire, essex on 9:37am Tue 20 May 08
Posted by: john, essex on 12:55pm Sun 18 May 08
i can asure people the dogs will be well looked after when the racing stops in mid august .
i can asure people the dogs will be well looked after when the racing stops in mid august .
How can you assure they are looked after, they arent looked after now, so what difference will this make. We are all at bursting point, we cannot accept anymore, Vets are being paid to put healthy dogs to sleep. I would like to know how you can assure they will be looked after?
Posted by: john, essex on 12:55pm Sun 18 May 08
i can asure people the dogs will be well looked after when the racing stops in mid august .
i can asure people the dogs will be well looked after when the racing stops in mid august .
How can you assure they are looked after, they arent looked after now, so what difference will this make. We are all at bursting point, we cannot accept anymore, Vets are being paid to put healthy dogs to sleep. I would like to know how you can assure they will be looked after?
Posted by: Evie, Waltham Forest on 9:47am Tue 20 May 08
Many people complain about the loss of facilities but how many people supported these facilities to ensure they remain financially viable?
At the end of the day if you're not prepared to put your money where your mouth is, you have no right to shout about the borough's business/cultural decline. Even charities can't survive without support let alone a business without finance. When people heard the rumours years ago why didn't they do something about it? As always it's like closing the stable door when the horse has bolted. If the country was going to the dogs, the Chandlers wouldn't have been in this situation.
On another note, the Council has to find more housing for an already over-populated borough, so they'll be pleased to give their blessing!
I moved to a 'greener' part of the borough only to discover Epping Council has given permission for an Estate to be build on green belt land next door!
The whole borough is becoming one depressing eye sore but are we protesting en masse?
Many people complain about the loss of facilities but how many people supported these facilities to ensure they remain financially viable?
At the end of the day if you're not prepared to put your money where your mouth is, you have no right to shout about the borough's business/cultural decline. Even charities can't survive without support let alone a business without finance. When people heard the rumours years ago why didn't they do something about it? As always it's like closing the stable door when the horse has bolted. If the country was going to the dogs, the Chandlers wouldn't have been in this situation.
On another note, the Council has to find more housing for an already over-populated borough, so they'll be pleased to give their blessing!
I moved to a 'greener' part of the borough only to discover Epping Council has given permission for an Estate to be build on green belt land next door!
The whole borough is becoming one depressing eye sore but are we protesting en masse?
Posted by: Paul, Chingford on 10:29am Tue 20 May 08
I'm afraid I'm probably one of the guilty people that have led to the stadiums demise.
I've lived in the borough for over 26 years & only been there once 10 years ago, & that was only because I went with some colleagues from a company I used to work for.
Now this has happened, I may go again before it closes. The restaurant menu looks good.
I'm afraid I'm probably one of the guilty people that have led to the stadiums demise.
I've lived in the borough for over 26 years & only been there once 10 years ago, & that was only because I went with some colleagues from a company I used to work for.
Now this has happened, I may go again before it closes. The restaurant menu looks good.
Posted by: Tom G, Walthamstow on 11:40am Tue 20 May 08
[quote][bold]Evie[/bold] wrote:
Many people complain about the loss of facilities but how many people supported these facilities to ensure they remain financially viable?
At the end of the day if you\\\'re not prepared to put your money where your mouth is, you have no right to shout about the borough\\\'s business/cultural decline. Even charities can\\\'t survive without support let alone a business without finance. When people heard the rumours years ago why didn\\\'t they do something about it? As always it\\\'s like closing the stable door when the horse has bolted. If the country was going to the dogs, the Chandlers wouldn\\\'t have been in this situation.
On another note, the Council has to find more housing for an already over-populated borough, so they\\\'ll be pleased to give their blessing!
I moved to a \\\'greener\\\' part of the borough only to discover Epping Council has given permission for an Estate to be build on green belt land next door!
The whole borough is becoming one depressing eye sore but are we protesting en masse?
[/quote] The only reason punters have recently stopped going to the dog tracks is because the government has changed the tax laws on gambling. You can now get tax free gambling anywhere (bookies, online etc.) before this change in law, tax free betting was only available at the track, without this incentive, many gamblers simply won't pay the admission fee to get in (an extra fiver to stick on a dog maybe?)
Just as local shops and businesses lose out to huge supermarket chains through council decisions to restrict parking, re-route road layouts (Leytonstone Tesco is a prime example!) Essentially people do what is made cheapest or easiest for them. The government could do a lot more to encourage a more interesting and diverse country.
It seems that what is being made easiest and cheapest these days, is going to one shop and doing everything else from home.
Trying to house an over populated borough will never work. The more housing you provide, the more populated the area becomes.
Evie wrote:
Many people complain about the loss of facilities but how many people supported these facilities to ensure they remain financially viable?
At the end of the day if you're not prepared to put your money where your mouth is, you have no right to shout about the borough's business/cultural decline. Even charities can't survive without support let alone a business without finance. When people heard the rumours years ago why didn't they do something about it? As always it's like closing the stable door when the horse has bolted. If the country was going to the dogs, the Chandlers wouldn't have been in this situation.
On another note, the Council has to find more housing for an already over-populated borough, so they'll be pleased to give their blessing!
I moved to a 'greener' part of the borough only to discover Epping Council has given permission for an Estate to be build on green belt land next door!
The whole borough is becoming one depressing eye sore but are we protesting en masse?
The only reason punters have recently stopped going to the dog tracks is because the government has changed the tax laws on gambling. You can now get tax free gambling anywhere (bookies, online etc.) before this change in law, tax free betting was only available at the track, without this incentive, many gamblers simply won't pay the admission fee to get in (an extra fiver to stick on a dog maybe?)
Just as local shops and businesses lose out to huge supermarket chains through council decisions to restrict parking, re-route road layouts (Leytonstone Tesco is a prime example!) Essentially people do what is made cheapest or easiest for them. The government could do a lot more to encourage a more interesting and diverse country.
It seems that what is being made easiest and cheapest these days, is going to one shop and doing everything else from home.
Trying to house an over populated borough will never work. The more housing you provide, the more populated the area becomes.
Posted by: Walthamster, E17 on 1:05pm Tue 20 May 08
Evie and Tom, good points there.
Yes, people ought to support local facilities while we've still got them. But too many just do what's easiest in the short term.
You can't be surprised at big business trying to put everyone else out of business.
What I object to is elected authorities -- the government in this case but all too often our local council -- supporting big businesses instead of communities. There are so many ways they could make it easier for people to support local facilities. Or as in this case at least not make matters worse by an unnecessary tax change!
Evie and Tom, good points there.
Yes, people ought to support local facilities while we've still got them. But too many just do what's easiest in the short term.
You can't be surprised at big business trying to put everyone else out of business.
What I object to is elected authorities -- the government in this case but all too often our local council -- supporting big businesses instead of communities. There are so many ways they could make it easier for people to support local facilities. Or as in this case at least not make matters worse by an unnecessary tax change!
Posted by: scott, London on 4:39pm Tue 20 May 08
Can anyone confirm if the frontage will be saved?
Can anyone confirm if the frontage will be saved?
Posted by: robert, romford on 10:59am Wed 21 May 08
Still no one wants to know about the dogs? At the end of the day thats the only reason the track was there!
Still no one wants to know about the dogs? At the end of the day thats the only reason the track was there!
Posted by: technomist, walthamstow on 2:38pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote][bold]robert[/bold] wrote:
Still no one wants to know about the dogs? At the end of the day thats the only reason the track was there![/quote] Actually Robert, at the end of the day, the track was only about generating money out of a human desire to gamble. The dogs were secondary to that, so were the jobs of the people employed there. Hardly anyone would have paid to watch the dogs running round without the gambling. Its just not fashionable. There are now also so many other places and ways people can gamble (just look at the proliferation of betting shops on Walthamstow High Street and betting on the internet), at the end of the day the dog track was bound to become a less profitable use of the space than some more attractive alternative use, like a property development.
Those above who blame the owners for not discussing their business plans in public, and consider there has been a 'betrayal' are naive: successful negotiators don't give away their plans in public, until the deal is sealed.
robert wrote:
Still no one wants to know about the dogs? At the end of the day thats the only reason the track was there!
Actually Robert, at the end of the day, the track was only about generating money out of a human desire to gamble. The dogs were secondary to that, so were the jobs of the people employed there. Hardly anyone would have paid to watch the dogs running round without the gambling. Its just not fashionable. There are now also so many other places and ways people can gamble (just look at the proliferation of betting shops on Walthamstow High Street and betting on the internet), at the end of the day the dog track was bound to become a less profitable use of the space than some more attractive alternative use, like a property development.
Those above who blame the owners for not discussing their business plans in public, and consider there has been a 'betrayal' are naive: successful negotiators don't give away their plans in public, until the deal is sealed.
Posted by: ROBERT, essex on 4:26pm Wed 21 May 08
I really dont give a toss about the track, its the dogs I care about
I really dont give a toss about the track, its the dogs I care about
Posted by: DJ, E4 on 4:44pm Wed 21 May 08
Another piece of Waltham Forest going. Soon, we'll only be left with flats, estate agencies and mobile phone shops. I hope something gets done with the EMD and the Arcade site to increase the amount of culture in this borough, or will we become London's uncultured ruin?
Another piece of Waltham Forest going. Soon, we'll only be left with flats, estate agencies and mobile phone shops. I hope something gets done with the EMD and the Arcade site to increase the amount of culture in this borough, or will we become London's uncultured ruin?
Posted by: Mr Codgers, Snaresbrook on 6:27pm Wed 21 May 08
[quote][bold]ROBERT[/bold] wrote:
I really dont give a toss about the track, its the dogs I care about[/quote] There aint no dogs you idiot! They closed Charlie Chans where they all hung out months ago!
ROBERT wrote:
I really dont give a toss about the track, its the dogs I care about
There aint no dogs you idiot! They closed Charlie Chans where they all hung out months ago!
Posted by: Jane Cox, Epping on 12:19am Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]Evie[/bold] wrote:
Many people complain about the loss of facilities but how many people supported these facilities to ensure they remain financially viable?
At the end of the day if you're not prepared to put your money where your mouth is, you have no right to shout about the borough's business/cultural decline. Even charities can't survive without support let alone a business without finance. When people heard the rumours years ago why didn't they do something about it? As always it's like closing the stable door when the horse has bolted. If the country was going to the dogs, the Chandlers wouldn't have been in this situation.
On another note, the Council has to find more housing for an already over-populated borough, so they'll be pleased to give their blessing!
I moved to a 'greener' part of the borough only to discover Epping Council has given permission for an Estate to be build on green belt land next door!
The whole borough is becoming one depressing eye sore but are we protesting en masse?
[/quote] I really don't know what to say, a tragic loss.
I must be a pain though and correct "Evie" on two things: 1) Epping isn't in the LBWF. 2) There are no plans to build an "estate on green belt" only on Brown Field land.
Evie wrote:
Many people complain about the loss of facilities but how many people supported these facilities to ensure they remain financially viable?
At the end of the day if you're not prepared to put your money where your mouth is, you have no right to shout about the borough's business/cultural decline. Even charities can't survive without support let alone a business without finance. When people heard the rumours years ago why didn't they do something about it? As always it's like closing the stable door when the horse has bolted. If the country was going to the dogs, the Chandlers wouldn't have been in this situation.
On another note, the Council has to find more housing for an already over-populated borough, so they'll be pleased to give their blessing!
I moved to a 'greener' part of the borough only to discover Epping Council has given permission for an Estate to be build on green belt land next door!
The whole borough is becoming one depressing eye sore but are we protesting en masse?
I really don't know what to say, a tragic loss.
I must be a pain though and correct "Evie" on two things: 1) Epping isn't in the LBWF. 2) There are no plans to build an "estate on green belt" only on Brown Field land.
Posted by: Elton John, Walthamstow on 5:49pm Thu 22 May 08
Can everyone please get this into perspective. I've read so many comments about the loss of facilities, people losing their jobs, the welfare of the dogs, the end of walthamstows greatest asset etc. but has anyone even spared a thought for how Brad Pit, Vinny Jones, Guy Richie and Madonna must feel right now, having bought dogs for a bit of east london charisma and now having nowhere to hang out.
Can everyone please get this into perspective. I've read so many comments about the loss of facilities, people losing their jobs, the welfare of the dogs, the end of walthamstows greatest asset etc. but has anyone even spared a thought for how Brad Pit, Vinny Jones, Guy Richie and Madonna must feel right now, having bought dogs for a bit of east london charisma and now having nowhere to hang out.
Posted by: Vic Knight, nottinghamshire on 4:45pm Mon 2 Jun 08
I was an East end lad born and bred before moving out to Essex, and then up to Nottinghamshire. The loss of Walthamstow Dogs is a desperately sad blow to the rapidly disappearing east-end I remember so fondly as boy. But it is a complicated issue because as a business it wasn't viable anymore - mostly because of betting exchanges and the 'dumbing-down' of gambling (online poker, online bingo etc.).
So I can understand the Chandlers cashing in their asset but it is still hearbreaking to see Walthamstow losing its identity.
I was an East end lad born and bred before moving out to Essex, and then up to Nottinghamshire. The loss of Walthamstow Dogs is a desperately sad blow to the rapidly disappearing east-end I remember so fondly as boy. But it is a complicated issue because as a business it wasn't viable anymore - mostly because of betting exchanges and the 'dumbing-down' of gambling (online poker, online bingo etc.).
So I can understand the Chandlers cashing in their asset but it is still hearbreaking to see Walthamstow losing its identity.
Posted by: martin, woodford on 9:25pm Tue 1 Jul 08
its an awful shame about the stadium being sold to developers, why didnt they sell it to someone who would keep it running as a stadium rather than letting the developers demolish such an iconic and historic place, generations of people have enjoyed a flutter at the stow and it should be preserved for generations to come, i went there on saturday expecting to see poor attendances but was surprised to see the place heaving with people enjoying a good night out, contrary to the chandlers statement of poor attendances being the main reason for its closure, i cant understand why the chandlers would want to see over 70 years of thier familys hard work destroyed just to make way for some flimsy flats, £40 million is alot of money but surely they have enough money already considering the likes of me and countless others have lost so much money on thier tote, i think they have become too greedy for money and have sold thier own family history down the river,and as for the animal rights people who seem so happy about its closure, its only now that the stadium is closing that the problem of what to do with all the dogs that run there has came up,most of them will be redundant and more likely to be in danger of being put down now that they have nowhere to run, somebody needs to intervene and save the stow, walthamstow will be a bland and boring place without it!![bold]bold[/bold]
its an awful shame about the stadium being sold to developers, why didnt they sell it to someone who would keep it running as a stadium rather than letting the developers demolish such an iconic and historic place, generations of people have enjoyed a flutter at the stow and it should be preserved for generations to come, i went there on saturday expecting to see poor attendances but was surprised to see the place heaving with people enjoying a good night out, contrary to the chandlers statement of poor attendances being the main reason for its closure, i cant understand why the chandlers would want to see over 70 years of thier familys hard work destroyed just to make way for some flimsy flats, £40 million is alot of money but surely they have enough money already considering the likes of me and countless others have lost so much money on thier tote, i think they have become too greedy for money and have sold thier own family history down the river,and as for the animal rights people who seem so happy about its closure, its only now that the stadium is closing that the problem of what to do with all the dogs that run there has came up,most of them will be redundant and more likely to be in danger of being put down now that they have nowhere to run, somebody needs to intervene and save the stow, walthamstow will be a bland and boring place without it!!
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